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News, Politics, and General / Reply to Mad Italy
« Last post by forbitals on July 06, 2019, 03:04:24 pm »
Recovery and Psychological Care are just rationalizations for further abusing survivors.  Its about teaching survivors that they should not attempt to restore their public honor.  It's substitution for the Biomedical Model, a model based on Moral Superiority and Denial of the ways in which power is being used against them in the present.

Psychotherapy and Recovery turn your experience of injustice into a self-improvement project.

Foucault explained that it used to be that the state kept people in line via the threat of execution.

But now this is no longer necessary.  The state can keep people in line just by refusing to grant them permission to die.

Deleuze and Guattari say that there is only one genuine mental illness, neuroticism.  It is incurable and it is fatal.

Look at Matthew Warren, the youngest son of Saddleback Church founders Rick and Kay.  As his father says, he had the "best Psychiatrists, best Psychotherapists, and best Prayer Warriors in the entire world".

Psychotherapy is based on a lie, that your experience of distress is only because of things which happened long long ago, and not because of the ways power is being used against you today.  Psychotherapy and Recovery make people neurotic.  And not that un-often, the results are tragic.
News, Politics, and General / Reply about the new manual
« Last post by forbitals on July 03, 2019, 02:28:36 pm »
I agree with @mental.

We don't need to watch the biomedical psychiatrists and the psychologists fight over market share.

The compassion and empathy of a psychotherapist is powerful.  It reaches all the way out to the most dusty corners of their office.  But then it goes no further.

Living without public honor is very painful, because one is marginalized and vulnerable.  But a psychotherapist has taken on the job of convincing people that they should live without making any attempts to restore their public honor.  Rather they are to believe that all of their pain and difficulties in living spring from things which happened long long ago.  And then still, they should make no attempts at redress.

The therapist needs this, because that allows them to protect their own denial systems.  What a cool set up, earning a living by abusing other survivors, by making them believe lies, so that the therapist can maintain their own denial systems.

And the more you tell your therapist, the less defensible space you have.

Fortunately we now have attorneys who are suing Psychotherapists over this, Transference Abuse.

Psychotherapy runs on the same logic that the middle-class family uses to psychically scar and maim children, the Self-Reliance Ethic, and it's all For Your Own Good.  Whereas the parents might have been using an out of date edition of the pedagogy manual, your Psychotherapist will have the newest edition.  It talks about empathy, nurturing, attachment, and communications skills.  And it's just like Rousseau's Emile, teaching parents how to manipulate and exploit children, by making it feel like what is happening is actually under their control, as it is for their own good.

Psychotherapy is pedagogy.  And the idea is that when completed, you will practice the same denial systems, believe the same lies, and worship the same idols as all the normals.

No we do not need this, and we do not want this on this forum.  Nothing in R.W.'s books ever legitimates psychotherapy or recovery.
News, Politics, and General / Replies To Steve
« Last post by forbitals on July 02, 2019, 04:32:53 pm »

Yes Rachel777, I am very glad that you did not harm yourself.

We gain our will to live back, when we start fighting back. We need to find comrades, and we need to find ways of fighting back.

I say one of the best is in putting some Psychiatrists and some Psychotherapists our of business, as well as in finding ways to make the law protect children instead of perpetrators.


If someone is a survivor then the course of their life has been irreparably altered.

While there is no way to undo this, actively fighing back makes it the perpetrator’s problem. Whereas “live and let live” makes it still the survivor’s failing.


And when people talk about “parenting” they are letting them off the hook and they are encouraging child exploitation.

“Parenting is a tough job”

Parents often don’t listen the a therapist, but they will listen to a judge. We cannot let therapists play God, has to be court supervision.

And the court needs to have realistic options, like something resembling an Israeli Kibbutz. This should be the norm, not the exception.


Steve, it all goes round and round, the abused become the abusers.

So where does it stop?

Well people can do all kinds of stupid stuff, and then be forgiven.

But where we have to draw the line is in using children.

Now, we can’t tell people not to have children. They won’t listen.

But when they do, and when their are problems, we hold the parents accountable. They are the ones who are not living up to their own values, they are the ones who are using pedagogy manuals to break the wills of children.

No, this could not be punished criminally, but the parents can still be held accountable financially. No disinheritance, like it is in other industrialized nations. This will make a big change. It makes it harder to scape goat a child.

And then we can’t eradicate the middle-class family, but we can mitigate it. A Kibbutz like Children’s Home, drop in center, temporary center, and the child having regular experience there.

The reason we don’t have this today is because of the Self-Reliance Bogus Ethic, because children are being used to control adults economically, and this is completely unfair to the children.

And we don’t have such things because they would serve all races and social classes, and so many are against such.

We can’t change everything, but we can take apart this right so many feel to use children.

A dependency court judge, a CASA, sometimes also the child having a lawyer, and therapists cannot operate in isolation, because they are being hired by parents, so they placate the parents.

We can take apart this sense of entitlement to use children, and the justification behind it, in the talk about “parenting”.


Steve wrote, “I am not sure you’re really getting what I’m talking about, and I find your comments here more than a bit dismissive of my reality. I ABSOLUTELY was encouraged to fully experience all the pain and confusion and loss that was the reality of my childhood, with tears and hopelessness and anxiety and angry swearing and the whole 9 yards.”

No, that’s my whole point, what they are telling you is that your pain is over things which happened long ago, when this is completely untrue.

They used to tell minor children who speak of ongoing sexual abuse that they are imagining. Today if they tried that, mandatory reporting should land them in prison.

So they do it differently. “Sure I feel your pain, I’m sorry that happened to you.”

They pretend to be on your side. But really they are not because their primary position is to get you to accept what has happen and to seek no redress, and to believe that this was just errors of the past, old editions of the pedagogy manual.

What they want is for you to be spouting the language of the new pedagogy manuals, empathy, nurturing, attachment, communications skills. They want you to be restored to worshipping the Holy Family, and they want you to side with parents instead of the children, so that you can then be seen as an adult yourself.

They want you to believe that your pain is over things which happened long ago, and hence has nothing to do with the present. In the end they are going to want you to “just get over it”.

This is my own experience, and it is also what is carefully explained here:

But the truth is something very different. The pains people feel are not primarily because of things which happened long ago. But your therapist does not want you to know this.

The pains you feel are primarily because your social and civil standing are voided, TODAY. You don’t have a legitimated biography, and so you are not accepted. So your survival is being threatened.

When abuse alters the course of your life, and when you won’t worship the Holy Family, and when your attempts to educate yourself and develop a career and find long term relationships have been undermined, you are looked down on.

So this means that you could be considered culpable, even expendable. So evolution has given us emotional pain, to let us know that things are not okay.

It is communicated to us in a 1000 ways every day.

Your therapist wants you to ignore this, as they also do.

They want you to stop trying to protect you’re inner core, and accept the Middle-Class Family. So the therapist does say things which exonerate the parents.

As where as the Middle-Class Family was not completely able to break you and make you accept the Self-Reliance Ethic, your therapist is there to finish the job.

Therapy is extremely manipulative, because it is itself another form of liberal pedagogy.


Phoebe, Thanks for the comment.

The Kibbutz Movement started because Zionists wanted to return Jews to the land. And they wanted women to be free from domesticity.

So they set up these children’s homes.

Sometimes these worked well, and sometimes there were problems.

And some Americans have criticized the Kibbutz Movement.

The biggest reason that its future is in question is simply because of the rise of the Likud Party and Neo-Liberalism. You could say, in Israel today, there are lots of ways to make money because since they have their national sovereignty, they have courts to protect absentee ownership. So it is no different from any other industrialized country, like say, the United States.

So it is only a minority who are interested in the Kibbutzes.

And fusing Zionism and Marxism always was a difficult project.

As one writer put it though, the Kibbutzes, never more than 4% of the population, supply Israel with more than 1/3 of its elite military, and with 1/2 of its fighter pilots, a disproportionate share of its agriculture and manufacturing, and town wives schedule their pregnancies with the openings in the Kibbutz Day Care Programs.

All I am suggesting is that we need to supply US children with group homes, and a couple of sets of back up parents. This is what gives the children citizenship, rather than forcing them to remain as property. They need to have back up, need to have other places to go.

The reason we don’t have such today is because children have always been used to impose a kind of economic regulation on the parents, and because such a group home and foster program would serve those of all socio-economic levels and all racial groups. Many are deeply opposed to this, as they see children as property and as a source of adult identity.

We can’t eliminate the middle-class family, but we can mitigate its effects.

News, Politics, and General / Replying To Annita
« Last post by forbitals on July 01, 2019, 04:00:34 pm »

You know, though Yale is technically a private college, it still takes in vast amounts of public money.

And that Autism-Apserger's Lab is where many people first get convinced that they have a ~neurological difference~.

John Elder Robison talks about taking his son there, and this is after the son had been highly objectified and subjected to an extreme and recurring form of what Alice Miller called the Narcissistic Wound.

And then it would be later that John Elder went there himself and got accessed, and today his gets the axons of the nerves in his brain stimulated by a transcranial magnet.  I have no doubt that soon parents will be sending their children for that.

Yale's Lab was founded by a leader of the International Eugenics Movement.

How would you feel if today Yale was offering degree's in Eugenics?

How about Racial Hygiene?

Capitalism needs the Middle-Class Family, needs it to break the wills of children, justifying this via the Self-Reliance Ethic.

It is a bogus ethic, a capitalist over coding.  Everyone wants to do great things, to develop and apply their abilities.  But what the Self-Reliance Ethic does is turn our future Einstein's into Homer Simpson's.

I know that Yale has some real outliers.  Some of what is taught there just amounts to Social Darwinism, a pseudo scientific rationalization for why the rich are rich and the poor are poor.

How do you feel about this?

The best way I have ever heard it put is this, Psychiatry and Psychotherapy turn your experience of injustice into a medical problem and a self improvement project.

How do you feel about this, and can't you see that Psychiatry, Clinical Psychology, and Psychotherapy are just justifications for abusing survivors?

Where vulnerable populations segments have been targeted during war time, doctors have been prosecuted.  The penalties tend to be high, the laws are always interpreted as retroactive, and out ranking national laws.  And there is no statue of limitations.

Do you agree with me that those who put children on psychiatric drugs should be prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity, and that the sentences should be the highest?

Do you agree that we should not allow our government to license psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, and psychotherapists?

Look at the ruined lives that these white coats are able to create.

As I have seen, the people most likely to believe in ~Mental Illness~ are usually those who have first acclimated themselves to the Self-Reliance Ethic.  And the same goes for ~Autism-Aspergers~"

Do you think the Self-Reliance bogus ethic is what keeps the ~mental illness~ myth, and Psychiatry, Clinical Psychology, and Psychotherapy going?

Would you ever be someone who tries to post here about Eugenics?
News, Politics, and General / Replying to the Tune Out Crowd
« Last post by forbitals on June 28, 2019, 04:32:11 pm »

"I personally would and do feel quite denigrated by the idea that I don’t know myself well enough to know that the drugs I *do* use to numb out some time (not psych drugs, but alcohol for one), and that I’m somehow a ‘victim’ as a result of seeing the value in that for myself… It also feels hard to hear that I’m somehow also not able to do the work that I apparently need to do to process my feelings, etc, if I’m using such substances and am somehow – if I’m reading you right – lesser than for that."

Feeling ones feelings, and staying mindful, is extremely hard work.  It can feel like your bones are being eaten in acid.

This book here puts it the best that I have seen, Psychiatry and Psychotherapy turn your experience of injustice into a medical problem and a self improvement project.

So who is going to challenge this?  Who is going to stop the survivors of familial abuses from ending up in mental health, psychotherapy, and recovery movement.

You say that you process your feelings.  I'm not talking about anything like that.  Processing feelings, usually what it means is just getting to where you can comply with social standards again.  And so some people get their doctor to write them a prescription.  You have learned how to prescribe for yourself to get the same result.

When I talk about feeling your feelings, I mean a long term commitment to regressions, starting with present feelings and working back.  I am talking about re-constructing oneself.  I mean collecting up the pieces which have been torn off and then re-membering yourself.

Unless we have people doing this, then nothing will change.  People will still be able to have children so that they don't have to deal with their own issues, and then break the wills and esteems of those children, knowing that they will end up in mental health and recovery.

I know that there have been numb out drugs from the beginning of time.  But I also know that they are a problem for those of use who want to reclaim what has been taken from us.  The numb out drugs help mental health, and the recovery movement, because they bring people down to their level.

People who just want to numb out are never going to offer effective opposition.

And in calling for the arbitrary individual decision to take what you want and to not take what you don't want, you are simply arguing for Libertarianism, and this is a fallacy.  Right now people are driving their children to the doctor, and they are being put on drugs.  And people who have grown up in very oppressive environments and been made to feel that it is there fault, they are being conned by psychotherapists.  And this being done via government licensing.

So while you ingest what you want, a horrible state of affairs persists.  The only way you would be able to see this though, would be if you were committed to the very hard work of feeling your feelings.

The people who then come along and tell me that they also thing I’m bad or wrong for choosing what I do take even in the most well informed way don’t have the same power or cause the same harm in any way, but they surely don’t help.

But you aren't helping either, you aren't opposing psych drugs, psychotherapy, the recovery movement, or the FixMyKid industry.

Where people seem to be getting lost – as best I can tell – is in our recognition that there *are* sometimes people who claim that no one should ever be on any kind of drug or that they know that anyone who says drugs help them is somehow misguided or “deluded”.

Talk about drugs is a direct attack on survivors.  It creates the impression that they are the problem, and that drugs which attack the functioning of their central nervous system are the remedy.

It's just like how **** has always been handled, trying to blame it on the victim, and making the pacification of the victim the intended outcome.

People who push in this way are *NOT* equal to the system that pushes drugs because (as we say several times in the article) those people have no systemic power.

Where there is power is in holding parents accountable, in holding the mental health system accountable, and in getting our government out of the recovery and salvation businesses.

But when there is conflict out at the barricades, it is those who want chemical tune out who are most likely to be AWOL.

Our society is sick, in that people work meaningless jobs and then use chemicals to tune out.  And this is what the middle-class family and the mental health system prepare people to accept.  So chemical tune outs is submission.  Where as the one who always seems to have their tail on fire is the one who is resisting.

However, my personal wish is that this movement will eventually get to the point where the focus *is* on power. Not on ‘recovery’… Not on what people should or shouldn’t be doing… but simply on their right to have real information, make real choices, be treated equally where their rights are concerned, and be the holder of power where their own lives are concerned.

But it can never get like this until some deeply embedded forms of abuse, in the middle-class family, and in its white coat enforcers, are exposed and eradicated.  And the only way to do this is public punishment of the perpetrators.  Its no different than it was with the de-Nazification of Germany, there have to be public consequences for the perpetrators, or it will just continue.

Sera, I do not agree with your article or with the message you are putting out.  You are not supporting mindful resistance, you are pleading that people like me will go along with you on pills and alcohol.

Its just like when you were trying to oppose the Murphy Bill, you were not calling for resistance to the mental health system.  You were pleading with Murphy and his supporters for tolerance for those who are in some way going along with the mental health idea.  You were not telling Murphy how every aspect of his proposed legislation would be resisted, and by any means necessary.  You were not telling Murphy and his supporters that they were torturing their own children.

We do have to resist the mental health system, and we have to resist tune out.  No this is not a legal requirement, there would be no way to enforce such a thing.  But I for one promise unceasing resistance to any articles or posts which encourage tune out, or cooperation with the mental health system or the recovery movement, or which encourage support for psychotherapists playing god in what should be seen as child abuse cases.

1459 Days of Resistance, how a political activist talks.  It is not pleading for tolerance.
News, Politics, and General / Meaghan Buisson, and MAPS
« Last post by forbitals on June 26, 2019, 04:57:25 pm »
Meaghan Buisson

Pushing Psychedelics

Is a champion athlete more powerful than madness and psychiatric medications?

When Meaghan Buisson said she wanted to break the world record for inline skating, her psychiatrist diagnosed her as psychotic. Two years later, she won the title — only to face the even greater challenge of self-harm, starvation, and psych meds withdrawal. Buisson now directs BodyWhys Canada, supporting youth with peer education.

News, Politics, and General / The Screwyness of People on Psych Drugs
« Last post by forbitals on June 26, 2019, 04:16:20 pm »
We don’t want people to be on prescription or street drugs, especially those prescription drugs which serve no purpose except mood alteration.

No street drugs are very hard to regulate effectively. Often efforts to control have the opposite of the intended effect.

But with prescription drugs, these are being distributed through prescriptions written by the holders of government licenses. With psychiatric drugs, we should be able to cut that off cold.

As far as individuals, patients, clients, survivors, undoubtedly we all have been through horrendous things. But the answer is not drugs.

And no, you don’t want to work with or associate with people who use psych drugs. They are not making the monumental life long effort to be able to live within their own skin. I helped put a guy in our state prison for molesting his daughters, and most of his defense was a ~mental illness~ defense. He let white coats turn his midlife crisis into a ~mental illness~ issue. And from that point on he was afraid to feel his feelings, and afraid to be without his drugs.

I wanted the daughters to sue him. They haven’t. But I think the defendant, now a convict, should be able to sue our mental health system.

I don’t mean to sound like I am shaming individuals, I know people have survived horrendous things, especially familial abuses. But drugs are not the answer, political activism and legal redress are the answer.

People who believe in drugs are, as I have seen, “screwy”. It’s because they don’t want to feel their feelings. So really, best to have no communication with them, to avoid senseless conflict.

Another man I know had a kind of a nervous breakdown, simulated by career collapse. But it is also because he does not believe in feeling his feelings.

So now he is on drugs. People tell him to throw them away. But no. He gives a stereotypical description of a homeless man, as you might see in any large US city. He says that these drugs are the only thing stopping him from becoming like that.

So he goes with the socially functional interpretation. Anyone who is not “socially functional” is ~mentally ill~.

It is impossible to deal with someone like this guy. Again, best strategy is just zero communication. Non-profit he was volunteering for recently 86ed him.

It’s not senseless shaming, it’s just the only practical solution to people who don’t want to feel their feelings, and who are going to try to manage their feelings via drugs.

And Sera, I can see now why you wrote articles to the Boston Globe which really created the impression that the Murphy Bill and its involuntary drugging must be in some cases necessary.
Bleeding Communion Wafers, Eucharistic Miracles

At the end of the 19th Century, French Occultists were dealing in bleeding communion hosts.  But the church was defrocking priests who trafficked in such.

Now the church, at least some elements of it, are promoting such.  I don't know what to make of it.

It is of course an extreme form of Catholic Fundamentalism, which I do not go along with at all.

Still curious to me.

Virtual Museum

^^^^  Starts off with Buenos Aries, '92, '94, 96

Looking for outside reportage on this, this one involved present Pope Francis:

"he saw to his amazement that the host had turned into a bloody substance. He informed Bishop Jorge Bergoglio (now Pope Francis), who gave instructions that the host be professionally photographed. The photos were taken on September 6, 1996. They clearly show that the host, which had become a fragment of bloodied flesh, had grown significantly in size. For three years the host remained in the tabernacle, the whole affair being kept a strict secret. Since the host had suffered no visible decomposition, in 1999 Archbishop Bergoglio (he had become Archbishop by that time) decided to have it scientifically analyzed."

One of these American scientists was Dr. Frederic Zugiba, a well known cardiologist, expert in forensic medicine, and chief medical examiner of Rockland County, New York from 1969 to 2002. He determined that the analyzed substance was real flesh and blood containing human DNA. Zugiba testified that “the analyzed material is a fragment of the heart muscle found in the wall of the left ventricle close to the valves. This muscle is responsible for the contraction of the heart. It should be borne in mind that the left cardiac ventricle pumps blood to all parts of the body."

The heart muscle is in an inflammatory condition and contains a large number of white blood cells. This indicates that the heart was alive at the time the sample was taken. It is my contention that the heart was alive, since white blood cells die outside a living organism. They require a living organism to sustain them. Thus, their presence indicates that the heart was alive when the sample was taken. What is more, these white blood cells had penetrated the tissue, which further indicates that the heart had been under severe stress, as if the owner had been beaten severely about the chest.”

So I look for secular news sources:

some curious books listed:

"Dr. Zugibe was one of the people investigating the Eucharistic miracle of Buenos Aires."

Video, Spanish with English subtitles

This stuff is so far out that it becomes more like occultism than mere fundamentalism.

Here another video in English, Priest telling the story.

Again, they used to be defrocking priests over stuff like this, now elements of the church are promoting it.
The only way to protect children from their parents is via the government. Child protection is one of the most important changes of the later 20th Century. Unfortunately it still seems that with Psychotherapy and these Autism-Asperger’s doctors, those in private practice use a business model which is centered on exonerating the parents. So we have to go the next step, mandatory reporting anytime a child is sent to such therapy.

Inheritance is already subject to court authority. And whenever someone dies intestate, it has to go thru the Probate Court. I’m just calling for it to be handled as it is in most other industrialized countries.

People can already sue for civil damages, its just that there are laws which make it hard for a child to sue their parents. So these can be changed.

UBI, Universal Medicare, Public Housing, Free College, these are just further developments in the move to Social Democracy, they are both the fruits of and necessitated by advancing industrial technology. The US had been on track with Western Europe up through the mid 60’s. Then Richard Nixon unveiled his Southern Strategy, and broke up the New Deal Coalition and steered us in a reactionary and idiotic direction. Most familial child abuse, physical, emotional, medical, and even sexual, is justified by invoking the Self-Reliance Ethic. That ethic has always been nonsensical.

Everything else on the list is a prohibition on what the government can do, no more licensing of Psychiatrists, Psychotherapists, or support for Recovery or Salvation programs, or Psychiatric Holds.

Following the precedent set with Jefferson’s Preamble, by Constituted Popular Sovereignty, the government belongs to us, and we can make it do or not do whatever we want.

I’m not naïve here, I know that the fight will be long hard and dangerous.

Eugene Delacroix 1830
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