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Reply to Bonnie B., about honor
forbitals:
Bonnie, A big reason that slavery ended in the United States was that free blacks were highly offended by Harriet Beecher Stowe and her protagonist. Within one year they were speaking before the Massachusetts State Legislature, demanding to be able to serve in the militia. And their justification was that they did not want to have to be like Beecher Stowe's protagonist. Then when the legislature still denied them, they bought their own uniforms and formed their own militia. Eventually 180,000 black men would train with rifles and bayonets and would serve in federal uniform. When Frederick Douglas praised them, he contrasted them with Beecher Stowe's protagonist. Without this service, they probably would have been returned to a state of slavery.
Beecher Stowe had not intended her protagonist to be offensive. She painted him as a paragon of Christian virtue, tortured to death, but still not betraying the escapees. But offensive he still was. She had wanted Whites to accept him as non-threatening, as already subjugated.
In Nazi Occupied France, resistance emerged, Catholics, Nationalists, and Marxists from the Spanish Civil War. They killed both Germans and French Collaborators. When they killed Germans, other Germans took those places. When they killed French, no other French took those places. It is only because of such resistance that France was purged of such collaborators and treated as one of the four allied powers of Europe.
And then in the Warsaw Ghetto, Jews saw that it was better to die with honor than without, and so they rose up in the face of near certain death. This act and others like it today give Jews something to remember and to look up to.
Bonnie, you do not seem to understand the nature of honor. If people let bullies pin a completely bogus label to their lapel, or let psychotherapists talk them out so that they can easily manipulate them, then they are surrendering their honor.
Usually the primary bullies are the parents, doctors, and school teachers. Other children are secondary.
And though it is right that LQBTQ members condemn abuses, just calling for diversity is not the same as taking any and all steps necessary to secure social and civil standing, and honor. I know of LQBTQ members who have devoted themselves to protecting children from religions abuse, and from familial abuses. Calling for diversity is not at all the same as directly standing up for ones own personhood and that of comrades.
Diversity is an idea like tolerance, that rather than enforcing absolute standards, that one should look the other way and understand that not everyone can measure up to those standards. So the standards still remain in place, its just that they are not always enforced. So no, I do not go along at all with what you are saying.
The ~mental health~, ~recovery~, and ~neurodiversity~ movements exist to label and marginalize, because that exonerates any and all abusers, and it leaves us with a society where everyone is always worried about their own compliance with normative standards.
forbitals:
"Actually, as a member of the LGBTQ community, I can assure you that yes, we do advocate sexual diversity."
Can you show any links to the LBGTQ community making these calls for sexual diversity? Can anyone supply such links?
I am going to look into the matter. I hope that the LQBTQ community advances itself with more than calls for diversity.
Most invoke the Stonewall Rebellion as the example to follow.
And then there had been harassment and threats against this Camp Sister Spirit in Mississippi. I never remember any calls for sexual orientation diversity. They treated the whole matter as one of threats of lethality.
Now, as I was just thinking this morning, it turns out that a few months ago I had met a man who had been on the Board of Directors of a prominent local LQBTQ group.
But this acquaintance of mine is a strong believer in ~mental illness~ and in ~psychotherapy~ He believes that he has ~mental illness~. He treats this with Crystal Meth, and he believes that ~psychotherapy~ and ~recovery~ are absolute necessities.
And the group he was a Board Member, as I know it does a lot of ~counseling~ for members of the LGBTQ Community who seem to be having difficulties.
My last words to this man were, "You are denigrating survivors with your talk about psychotherapy and recovery." He denies this, but I finally just walked away from him.
I think now that what I was seeing was this, decades ago the Middle-Class Family would likely of condemned homosexuality, seeing it as a violation of the Self-Reliance Ethic.
Now, things have changed, and often the Middle-Class Family will not condemn homosexuality, so long as there is compliance with the Self-Reliance Ethic.
And so my acquaintance is like that, an enforcer of the Self-Reliance Ethic, via psychotherapy and recovery, but also an outspoken LGBTQ supporter.
And we know that the LGBTQ movement has always had both types. Some insist on public transexuality and public displays of affection, because they insist on the same right which heterosexuals have. While others try to come across as inoffensive and especially to be seen as employable, thinking here of things like the Mattachine Society. But what this latter is doing is aligning itself with the ideologies of the Middle-Class Family.
Remember at the start of Bill Clinton's Presidency there was debate about gays in the military, and Clinton just wanted to flat out lift the ban. So there was testimony before the Senate. One woman in a white military uniform was talking about her own experience and her history of service. Strom Thurmond from South Carolina asked her, "Have you talked to a doctor about getting help for your problem?"
If the LGBTQ community makes calls for "sexual orientation diversity", then I say that they are relinquishing their dignity and they are always going to have to be dealing with people who say that doctors and therapists can help them with their problems. And so they had better be ready for the interment camps.
https://www.amazon.com/Pink-Triangle-Nazi-Against-Homosexuals/dp/0805006001/ref=sr_1_1?crid=M1OK6OR21NWE&keywords=the+pink+triangle+the+nazi+war+against+homosexuals&qid=1563396084&s=gateway&sprefix=the+pink+trian%2Caps%2C182&sr=8-1#reader_0805006001
"besides that you are not understanding neurodiversity theoeists here, and your are very definately not hearing what I am saying"
Well as it stands I had just recently posted a great deal about this idea of ~neurodiversity~.
Here, 5 posts.
https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/06/good-actually-means-good/#comment-156834
And then here it is, after calling for ~neurodiversity~ we finally have the promise of a cure, at least a treatment, the Transcranial Magnet, to make currents flow in the axons of the nerve cells inside the brain!
https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/07/06/tms1_enl-e295668c2f9e70baa3d00fe41a708346062f8752-s1200.jpg
Bonnie wrote,
"I think PacificDawn, that you have really misunderstood what neurodiversity theorists are doing. They are not pleading for anything. They are directly countering a pathology paradigm with a neurodiversity paradigm."
This Steve Silberman, a proponent of neurodiversity, and one who finds a hero in Hans Asperger. Asperger signed to send thousands of children to be euthanized. If he had not been able to hide his association with the Nazi's, then Apserger would probably have been executed.
I read your discussion of this Nick Walker.
And:
http://neurocosmopolitanism.com/
Why would anyone accept any kind of a label if they were not being conned and bullied?
Most of the time children are not really well positioned to take an absolute stand against their parents, and not when the parents are backed up by white coats, and not when the child is being placed in situations which are not safe.
Bonnie did you have a lapel tag in mind, for radical neurodiversity, not for pathology of course?
You say there are many ways to resist. Do you consider capitulating to bullies to be a way of resisting?
Would you say that Neville Chamberlain was resisting at Munich?
Why would anyone accept any kind of a stigmatizing label unless they were being placed under duress and conned?
Bonnie, fortunately not everyone responds to oppression in the ways that you suggest.
Part1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zdzf5aQd9k
Part2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hgU3wvQEho
Part3, the Yellow Star
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BPWoYzphFE
forbitals:
This is a wretched attempt to attach an Autism / Neurological Difference label to people, probably often children.
"NW: Exactly. It is not possible to think outside the norm without building neural pathways in your brain… And every mad brain is a neurodivergent brain, which is different from someone’s whose thoughts stay within cultural norms."
The human brain is extraordinarily complex. The idea that just because someone seems to be tempered a bit differently, or seems to communicate or think a bit differently, that you can say that they have a ~neurodivergent~ brain is preposterous.
Sami Timimi insists that there are absolutely no biological markers to the diagnosis of Autism / Aspergers.
None genetic, none otherwise.
This ~neurological difference~ is a fantasy which has been created to legitimate the continuing abuse of children and adults.
You want to pin labels onto people, and when there is zero evidence for this. And you call this cognitive liberty? You think people need to accept such a label in order to have cognitive liberty, in order to legitimate their thoughts?
"Oh, I think differently, I have a neurological difference, and I am protected by the principle of cognitive liberty."
This is what you want? That is an unconscionable stigmatizing, and for no legitimate reason.
If I have anything to say about it, this will fought in courtrooms across the land.
And no I do not go along with any general drug decriminalization. Such decriminalizations should come on a case by case basis, and only when there is a long history of it being impractical to enforce a prohibition. We don't want to deliberately introduce any new drugs, such as drugs formerly issues by prescription. The more people on such drugs, the more problems.
Why Bonnie you would want such a thing I cannot see. Your thinking seems to be detached from any reality, and rather driven by I do not know what.
forbitals:
But usually that "passably acceptable argument", as Bertram Karon states it, is part of the justification used for writing the prescription, and getting the client to do the voluntary ingestions.
I know a man who has been convinced that he has ~Bipolar 2~ and he has been given ~medications~. First it was just one at a very low does, but the dosages and the number these lethal drugs has increased. He even has an extra one which he can ingest when he feels any anxiety.
He has even talked about suing the county for his original low dosage. It is less than what the Physician's Desk Reference specifies.
To me his complaint seems absurd. If one has to ingest such neurotoxins, then of course you just do the bare minimum. Going lower than PDR does not do any harm. It is not harmful, unless one really believes that the drugs are a necessity to go on living.
But my friend clearly wants these narcotics to mask his experiences. I tell him to dump them. He always says in response, "But I want to enjoy my life".
What he seems to mean is that he wants to be drugged into zombie hood, and this is what he means by enjoying his life.
He wants these drugs to completely mask his negative experiences.
He then goes on to invoke a negative stereotype of a homeless man, and he says that the only thing keeping him from becoming like that, are these drugs.
This is sad. He thinks the drugs keep him "socially functional". And it is this which I believe Bertram Karon was calling out when he spoke of "passably acceptable to most people most of the time".
Its the kind of an idea which you would find in someone who has totally submitted to the ideas of the ~mental health~ system, and those being essentially the same as those advanced by the Middle-Class Family.
And so to make it clear, here what I am referring to is it being done with people who are already facing huge and ongoing social harassment, over this imaginary issue of a ~neurological difference~. To be more clear, it is being directed at those who have been convinced that they have ~Autism - Aspergers~, but instead of admitting that this imaginary ailment has no objective basis, as Sami Timimi says, "no biological markers", and "Autism does not exist."
And these survivors are being told, in effect, that they can be made passably acceptable to most people most of the time, by MDMA.
Now the originator of this, Nick Walker at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, says that it is to deal with "social anxiety".
Walker and his MIA colleague believe that this ~neurodiverstiy~, and in a radicalized form, something which there is zero evidence for, somehow benefit by accepting the label, and by then proclaiming the doctrine of "Cognitive Liberty".
I consider this to be a high level of abuse, and something which has to be responded to.
forbitals:
Usually the proponents of ~Autism-Aspergers~ are putting up this idea of ~neurological difference~ to say that ~Autism-Aspergers~ is not a ~mental illness~ and that it is also not really a ~disorder~ or a ~disability~.
But I hold that it is patently obvious that this is just capitulation to bullying and labeling. It is absolutely no one's business how my neurology or your neurology are wired up. And there is no reason any of us should be subjecting ourselves to testing or questionnaires, or to have to be advancing such labels to plead for approval.
That Nick Walker finds people willing to go along with his ~radical neurodiversity~ idea strongly suggests that he is preying on those who are under duress. They face duress because of abusive work environments, and most likely because of abuse school environments, and especially because of their parents.
This Jayne Lytel is a frightening woman. This book is saturated with the hatred that she and the husband feel for their second son Leo.
https://www.amazon.com/Act-Early-Against-Autism-Fighting/dp/039953394X/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=act+early+against+autism&qid=1564006070&s=gateway&sr=8-3
Here William Stillman explains that there is no epidemic of autism, there is only an epidemic in demands for hours of Applied Behavioral Analysis. He calls this "Mommy Guilt".
https://www.amazon.com/Soul-Autism-Looking-Spiritual-Secrets/dp/1601630050/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=william+stillman&qid=1564006159&s=gateway&sr=8-5
Majia Holmer Nadesan traces out the history of how the ideas of Autism and Asperger's could not have existed without universal schooling, without the mental health system, or without the eugenics movement. She explains how Yale's lab was started by a leader in the international eugenics movement. Many of the most vocal Autism-Asperger's advocates received their ~assessments~ there.
She also goes on to explain what she is calling "Bio-Looping", meaning just the horrid hatred and othering, sometimes classified as ~treatment~, which those so labeled are being subjected to. And of course this makes one more withdrawn, more fidgety, and more susceptible to further scapegoating.
Most of what is being called ~Autism Aspergers~ seems to amount this Bio-Looping. according to Majia Holmer Nadesan. But she does say that there probably was some original difference, but it is unlikely that anyone will ever be able to know what it is.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0415321816/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i1
And then of course we know now that Hans Asperger signed for thousands of children to be euthanized, only saving the few he wanted for further study. It was because he was able to hide his Nazi past that he evaded prosecution.
https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=hans+asperger&qid=1564009276&s=books&sr=1-1
Sami Timimi and his coauthors make it clear that they are being as emphatic as they can in their statement, "Autism does not exist."
Timimi also says, that what started the perception of difference could have been something just as simple as a child getting out to play with age peers a year or so later than the others. He credits the upsurge in assessments to the rise of Neoliberalism, particularly in the UK's Tony Blair administration, and also to psychiatric policing and the resurgence of the eugenics movement which Neoliberalism has brought.
https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medicalising-Emotional-Competence/dp/0230545262/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=sami+tamimi+myth+of+autism&qid=1564007897&s=books&sr=1-1-fkmr0
Peter Breggin has written, originally in 1991, that all of the US Autism advocacy groups are simply defensive formations of the parents, needing to prove that autism is real and genetic. But in fact they haven't proven or disproven anything, except that there is strength in numbers.
https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Psychiatry-Electroshock-Biochemical-Theories/dp/0312113668/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=toxic+psychiatry+peter+breggin&qid=1564008250&s=books&sr=1-1
So what it looks like then, as always seems to be the case with these group targeting's, is that it depends upon members of the targeted group picking up the mantle and doing it themselves, to their fellow survivors.
John Elder Robison, Temple Grandin, Nick Dubin, and Alex Plank are impossible to listen to, once you see what they are really saying, and what they have internalized.
And this is why free blacks found Harriet Beecher Stowe's protagonist an outrage, so much so that they made an oblique reference to him when they demanded of the Massachusetts State Legislature that they be allowed to serve in the militia. And when they were denied this, they bought their own uniforms and started drilling and training themselves.
In France someone who aids oppressors is known as a collaborator. But in the US, reference is made to Harriet Beecher Stowe. She wanted Whites to accept him, so being a Presbyterian Seminary Teacher, she made him a paragon of Christian virtue. Even tortured to death he would not betray the escapees. But nor did he ever make any attempt to fight back, and nor had he ever made any preparations for resistance or revolt.
So needless to say Bonnie, I find what you and Nick Walker are doing to be reprehensible and intolerable. And I also find it to be based on ignorance of the basic issues of oppression and the necessary struggles to restore honor.
The litmus test for resistance is in the penalties imposed on perpetrators and in the reparations obtained for survivors, not in the accommodations made to placate bullies or the pleas for approval.
I would suggest then that the best place to start is not in Autism Advocacy, but rather with Frantz Fanon's "Wretched of the Earth".
https://www.amazon.com/Wretched-Earth-Frantz-Fanon/dp/0802141323/ref=sr_1_1?crid=17D01G7LLIR4I&keywords=wretched+of+the+earth+frantz+fanon&qid=1564010804&s=books&sprefix=wretched+of+the+earth%2Cstripbooks%2C186&sr=1-1
And Fanon was a psychiatrist and director of the psychiatric hospital, treating both the tortured and the torturers. But by the end of their independence war, he had resigned his position and was clearly against psychiatry and any kind of psychotherapy.
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